An Interview with Al Shugart

Phebus :   Society is increasingly getting away from a national viewpoint. It's becoming less and less of the U.S. and less and less of just Japan itself. It's becoming more of an integrated society. What do you think you're going to do to keep up with this change?
Shugart :   First of all, I disagree. I don't think it's being integrated at all. I think the United States is really a separate kind of thing.

What we do at Seagate, and I feel very strongly that we must be a worldwide company, is that we have operations in 20 different countries -- 91,000 people in 20 different countries. And we encourage diversity across cultures and learning.

My objective, everybody laughs at me, is to have a plant in operation in every country in the world. We don't have a franchise on the smarts, nor does any country. So anytime you open up a new operation in a new country, you learn something. I've seen it happen.

Wolfson :   How did Ernest take the election?
Shugart :   Ernest is in seclusion.(laughs)

Wolfson: Could you explain about Ernest?

Shugart: Ernest is a Burnese mountain dog that is my form of protest in the broken political system in the United States. We ran him for Congress in the 17th district in Monterey and Santa Cruz counties. It was a great lesson in politics for us because we had to organize a campaign committee and file reports and so forth. It was my way of protesting the system.

Campaign reform, election reform, lobbyists, all this stuff is killing us.

The political system is broken, and the way we're going about it now, it's not going to get fixed. We've got to get rid of the Republicans and the Democrats and the lawyers and elect only independents, and Ernest is definitely an independent. If we can get a bunch of Ernests in the Congress, then maybe we can fix the political system. Campaign reform, election reform, lobbyists, all this stuff is killing us.

Ernest will continue, even though he lost the election. Neither Monterey nor Santa Cruz county would count his write-in votes. That's why he's in seclusion. He's very upset about that. But Friends of Ernest, which is the campaign committee, is continuing and acting as a watchdog group, if you'll pardon the pun. (laughs)

You're probably breaking a law right now and don't even know it. And this is going to sink us. We have to start over.

Friends of Ernest is looking at all the government-supplied statistics that everybody takes as fact, as gospel truth without ever questioning them. Friends of Ernest is asking the government for the formula on how they got the number. Not challenging the number, just how did you get it? So far, the best we've been able to get out of the United States government in asking for a formula is, "It's too complicated to tell you." Now that tells you something all in itself.

Wolfson :   Your feelings about government. Do you feel that they come from your role as a businessman or as a citizen, or both?
Shugart :   They come from my role as a citizen. There are so many rules and regulations you can't function.You're probably breaking a law right now and don't even know it. And this is going to sink us. We have to start over.
Wolfson :   As a businessman, you have a responsibility to make a profit for your company, to be a good employer. Do you feel that businessmen have a responsibility towards the larger community as well?
Shugart :   Oh, absolutely. We pride ourselves on being a good corporate citizen.

Phebus: Can you give me some examples of that?

Shugart: We donate money and time and our employees do, too. I think we have an enlightened, charitable contribution plan that encourages our employees to participate in activities at the local level. We very seldom, if ever, make donations at the national level. It's all local-level stuff.

I got into it because I liked fixing things and I went to work for IBM as a broken machine repairman.

Right here in Santa Cruz county, we sponsor a lot of SPCA stuff, AIDS walk; we're big on the Wharf-to-Wharf race, these kinds of things.

Wolfson :   Have you heard any good computer jokes lately?
Shugart :   That may be an oxymoron. (laugh). I saw one in the Wall Street Journal last week that was kind of cute. They were talking about customer service. A customer service person told the user to send a copy of the floppy disks, and so he got in the mail a Xerox copy of the floppy disk. (laugh). I thought that was funny.
Enjoy yourself. Be a nice person. Don't hurt anybody. Be nice to animals. It doesn't include being nice to media people, but I try.
Phebus :   Do you consider yourself a businessman or did you get into your profession because you were an inventor?
Shugart :   I got into it because I liked fixing things and I went to work for IBM as a broken machine repairman. It was interesting to be faced with a problem and then to fix it. Finally I'd seen all the problems, and I was going to quit. And they said, don't do that. We're starting a research and development lab.

And I got to start designing computers. It turned out I was pretty good at it, fortunately. But that was just luck. Absolute luck. My advice to kids is do something you like. The worst thing that can happen to you is to get stuck in a job you don't like. I think that is crazy.

And I got to start designing computers. It turned out I was pretty good at it, fortunately.

Sometimes, you have to earn a living; that's number one. You have to stay alive, eat and sleep, whatever. But once that's taken care of -- and that doesn't cost a lot -- then do something you enjoy.

Now if you're really lucky, what you really enjoy and what you're good at are the same things. Like, say, a golf pro. That is the ultimate. Can you imagine a golf pro, a guy that loves to play golf and he gets paid for it?

Wolfson :   What qualities do you look for when you hire an employee?
Shugart :   Smarts. That's number one, across the board. Number two is the ability to communicate and to be a nice person. But smart is number one. You could have all the nice people in the world, but if they're not smart, your company is going to go down the tubes.
But that was just luck. Absolute luck
Wolfson :   Do you follow a general philosophy of life?
Shugart :   Yeah. Enjoy yourself. Be a nice person. Don't hurt anybody. Be nice to animals. It doesn't include being nice to media people, but I try.

Wolfson: We're tough. We're used to it.

Phebus :   How do you think we can prepare for a more moral future in regards to technology and things like that? Like the question of whether we are messing around with God with genetic engineering. Or the strange things we might be able to do some day with computers and artificial life?
Shugart :   That's not high on my worry list at all. It doesn't even occupy any one of my brain cells. One of the things you can do in life if you're not careful is to worry about things you can't do anything about or worry about problems that don't exist or find solutions that there's no problems for, and that sort of thing.

Wolfson: A lot of people do worry about such things though. You hear of big symposiums on the outer reaches of genetic engineering and the computer invading our privacy. Do you think these are things not to be looked at?

Somebody once said that Al Shugart is honest to a fault. I decided what that means is that I could not lie about something even though lying would make things better.

Shugart: I'm not concerned about them. What kind of privacy have I lost so far? I haven't lost any privacy. I don't have a web page. I don't spend 4 hours a day surfing the web. I get a little concerned with our government and their insistence to investigate, document, Irangate and Watergate. Now that worries me. But that has nothing to do with computers.

What kind of privacy have I lost so far? I haven't lost any privacy. I don't have a web page. I don't spend 4 hours a day surfing the web.

Wolfson: The fear is that technology will allow more of that to happen.

Shugart: The problem is not the computer. The problem is why we let these things happen in the first place.

Wolfson :   How do you think your friends describe you behind your back?
Shugart :   They might call me a nut case. Sometimes off-the-wall, controversial, outspoken. Probably a nice person. I don't think anybody would say I'm not a nice person. Even enemies who dislike me would say, he's a very honest person. In fact, somebody once said that Al Shugart is honest to a fault. I decided what that means is that I could not lie about something even though lying would make things better.
Wolfson :   Do you have any possessions that you've kept from your early days?
Shugart :   Like my wife (laughs)? Naa. I'm not much on souvenirs and keepsakes. I like to throw things away. I LOVE to throw things away. I like new things.